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Padam Sundas |
Similar to other marginalised and oppressed groups, the Dalits placed a
great hope on a progressive constitution that would correct historical
wrongs and enshrine their rights, says Padam Sundas, a veteran civil
society activist and the Chairperson of Nepal Dalit Literature and
Culture Academy. But their hope of a progressive constitution have been
dashed (for now) with the demise of the Constituent Assembly. The Post’s
Gyanu Adhikari spoke with Sundas to get a perspective on current
political developments, as well as the social problems faced by the
Dalits. Sundas, originally from Bhojpur, is a board member of Samata
Foundation, a think tank in Kathmandu enaged in policy research and
advocacy for the Dalits. Excerpts:
In the aftermath of the demise of the Constituent Assembly, the
Janajati activists are planning a new party. Is there a possibility of
a Dalit party as well?
No, the reasons for oppression of Dalits and Janajatis are different,
and so are the populations. Janajati groups tend to live in a block
whereas Dalits are spread out. There are no places where the Dalits can
win elections on a caste/ethnic (jatiya) platform, except perhaps a few
constituencies in Saptari/Siraha Baglung/Parbat, and some places in the
Karnali.
What about the possibility of Dalits joining the Janajati party?
Around May 27, there was a clear division between those who wanted a
progressive, federal constitution versus those who wanted to maintain
the status quo. The Dalits haven’t supported the federal agenda
wholeheartedly because, qualitatively, it doesn’t matter. The Dalits are
not asking for a state. It’s also true that Hill Dalits have distinct
relationship with Khas Arya community. The Dalits in the Tarai have
those relationships with other Madhesis. There are Dalits within
Janajatis too, for example the Newars and Sherpas. So even if Dalits
will not join the Janajati party, as members of oppressed groups,
they’ll support the agenda
Among the four major political forces today—Nepali Congress,
CPN-UML, UCPN (Maoists), and Madhesi parties—which is most supportive of
the Dalit agenda?
The Dalit movement has always supported the progressive side. To be
honest, the reason a huge number of Dalits joined the 10-year Maoist
insurgency was because the way Maoists looked at the jatiya issues was
practical.The Maoists said that Dalit issue will only be solved together
with caste/ethnic issue. The Dalits were with the NC in the 1950 (2007)
in its battle for democracy. It was with the leftist forces in the
movement against Panchayat. Huge number of Dalits joined CPN-UML after
the 1990’s movement, only to be disappointed. Today, I think about 90
percent of the Dalits are with the Maoists.
How has the representation of Dalits in various parliaments changed?
No party believes that a Dalit can win elections. Historically, before
the CA, the only Dalit person to win an election was Krishna Singh
Pariyar from Nepalgunj. He won on a NC ticket. But the Maoist party
fielded large number of Dalit candidates in the direct elections for the
CA, and seven of them won. Before the CA, when there was an interim
parliament, the Maoists brought 12 Dalits to the parliament. Ultimately,
the fact that there were in total 50 Dalit members from all parties in
the CA and they could come together on issues was a contribution of the
Maoists.
What did the Dalits gain from this representation?
The biggest losers of the CA’s demise have been Nepal’s women and
Dalits. In the CA, 99 percent of the demands of the Dalits had been
passed (that’s why Dalit sympathy is towards CA revival than new CA
elections). The new constitution would have made ‘untouchablility’ a
serious crime (Jaghanya aparadh). Dalit rights would’ve been enshrined
as fundamental right, something that hasn’t happened even in India. We
wanted proportional representation and additional ‘special’ rights as a
compensation for past injustices. We didn’t want a state, or a
non-territorial state, because—once the Dalit issue is over—the
community hill Dalits are going to dissolve (antarghulit) is with the
Khas community. Similarly, the Tarai Dalits will dissolve within the
Madesi community. Same with the Newari Dalits etc. It’s because the
cultural and linguistic traits are the same, and once the problem of
untouchability (Chuwachhut) is over, the communities will become one.
Unlike the The Janajati movement, which is to preserve the culture and
language, the Dalit movement is not forever.
Turning to the differences within Dalits, do you see differences in terms of Hill and Tarai?
They have different status. The Hill Dalits are ahead in terms of
education, health and employment. The worst conditions for the Dalits
exist in the Madhes, from east to west.
Why is that?
Madhesi and Hill Dalits couldn’t rise together. The biggest problem in
the Madhes is that of education, and of land. More than fifty percent of
Dalits in Madhes are landless. Even after the Madhesi movement, the
Madhesi parties and the Madhesis haven’t changed their perspective of
the Dalits. One or two Dalits may be there in the parties as tokens but
the actual position of Dalits in the Madhes is very weak.
Let’s talk about untouchability, the fundamental problem for Dalits. Are the mainstream parties and leaders ‘casteists’?
They didn’t let us raise the issue in the past. Take the NC or the UML,
which were both supported by the Dalits in the past. The NC leaders
said the problem was something that took time, not something we could
solve because because we wanted to. My friends in the NC used to say
that as soon as you brought up Dalit issues with Girija Prasad Koirala,
he used to say ‘It happens, but have I ever discriminated against you?’ I
personally experienced the UML. They said we should call ourselves
oppressed, not Dalits. For them, only the class problem existed. They
opposed quotas (aarakshan) until the movement forced them to accept it.
The same is true for proportional representation. The Maoists took it
seriously than the others. They have a Dalit Morcha within the party.
Naturally, they discuss the issue more seriously.
Legally, when was untouchability made illegal?
The new Muluki Ain that came out after Mahendra brought out the
constitution in the early 1960s prohibited discrimination based on
caste. The Dalits started getting opportunities to study after that
time, but there was this compulsion to proclaim we were all Nepalis.
Protesting about unequal treatment wasn’t allowed.
So it’s been fifty years since untouchability was made illegal
and today it’s punishable with a fine of up to Rs 100,000 and up to one
year in prison. But why is it still frequently practiced?
For a long time, Dalit movement couldn’t be political. We focused on
the social movement aspect and brought out programmes like entering
temples and communal feasts. In addition, the communists ignored it. But
the contradictions were there. For example, when a Dalit cadre took a
letter from the centre to the district leader’s house, who usually
happened to be upper-caste, the cadre couldn’t enter the house. So the
leader read to him, from inside. Even today, in a district like Pyuthan,
the birth place of big communist leaders, a Dalit has to face
discrimination in everyday places like a tea shop.
Why aren’t there legal actions taken against those guilty of practicing untouchability?
Who is to implement the law? You couldn’t imagine a Dalit judge.
There’s currently one in the appellate court, but that’s it. The
implementers are the police. There’re no Dalit officers, so naturally,
the cases about untouchability get ignored. Either the cases don’t reach
the court, or the lawyers and judges didn’t give it proper attention.
Is the practice uniform everywhere in Nepal or are some places worse than others?
Everyone knows each other in a village, so a Dalit there doesn’t have
it easy anywhere, be it school, bazaar or the temple. That’s different
in Kathmandu. Cities give anonymity. Even with the landlord, you meet
him only once a month. That’s why many Dalit friends from outside the
Valley prefer to leave their district and live in Kathmandu. Here, at
least, once you’re step out of the landlord’s house, you’re free. But
discrimination exists in Kathmandu. Once they find out you’re a Dalit,
the treatment is the same.
Is there anywhere in Nepal where this isn’t practiced?
Not a place. Well, there’s one place, Manang, a Buddhist place. Even in
that district, the lower regions populated by Hill people have the
custom. It’s very interesting. In the Sherpa territory, they don’t
bother a Hill Dalit. But there are Sherpa Dalits. Another example is the
Madhesi Dalit. In Kathmandu, he’s just a Madhesi—no matter whether he’s
a Jha, Yadav or a Chamar. Conversely, when a Hill Dalit goes to the
Madhes, the Hill-origin people treat us as Dalits, but the local Madhesi
people don’t care. To them, we’re Pahadiya.
The Dalit movement is criticised for ignoring untouchability among the Dalits themselves. Is it a just criticims?
Yes, it’s practiced. The Dalit movement used to think that it would be
weakened if the discrimination within the community was made an issue.
But we shouldn’t forget that untouchability was derived from the
practices of the upper-caste in the Hindu religion, and the structure
within the Dalits is to divide the oppressed and maintain the status
quo. Not only untouchability, there’re the water-taboo (pani nachalne),
with Bisworkarma or a Sarki not drinking water touched by Pariyar or a
Damai or a Gaine. Among the higher castes, they don’t have this.
There’re categories there too, for example, between Upadhyaya Bahun and
Jaisi Bahun. But water touched by one is not a taboo for another like in
the Dalit groups. That said, among the politically conscious Dalits,
this practice has drastically declined.
What’s going to be the Dalit agenda in coming days?
It’ll be to enshrine in the new constitution and implement all the
provisions regarding Dalits passed in the CA. For this, we’ll have to
work together with progressives, federalists and republicans.
source :- the-kathmandu-post
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